Talking About: Rodham
Why We Chose This Book
We all know how the real-life story of Hillary Clinton goes. She starts out life as a star in college, meets and marries Bill Clinton and becomes criticised when she stays with her husband after he has an affair during his presidency. When she runs her own campaign for the top job, she loses to Donald Trump. Would things have been different if she’d turned down Clinton’s marriage proposal? This novel by Curtis Sittenfeld envisions that Sliding Doors universe.
The Participants
Rachelle, Marina and Ute
RACHELLE How do you feel about the concept of taking a real-life person and reinventing her life story?
MARINA I loved the idea of it, given that she is such a well-known character of our times and someone everyone has a strong opinion about.
UTE Curtis Sittenfeld did this before with Laura Bush and while I love the idea, I do see the intrinsic issues. If, as a writer, you do it effectively, you are going to shape the way people think about this character. But it’s less problematic with Hillary Rodham Clinton, who everyone already has an opinion about.
R It really highlighted some actual events that I’d forgotten about. I wonder if that has an impact on how people perceive the real-life Bill today.
M I have to say that I really didn’t enjoy the first section which was mostly based on her real life. Bill’s “true colours” were unfolding and it was so frustrating that Hillary hung around – I wanted to scream out loud. In real life, that is why many people believe that more people didn’t vote for her in the 2016 election. I would have dumped Bill the first time I saw him kissing another woman in the street, let alone when someone accuses him of rape.
U I actually loved the first section. At first I was frustrated with the amount of time the author spent setting up the love affair between Bill and Hillary. I thought, “Why is she doing this?” Then I remembered how when the Clintons first came to prominence, there was so much controversy along the lines of “Why is he with her?” – the idea being that he was so charismatic and she wasn’t. And that really shaped the narrative about her for a long while. You just wouldn’t have that conversation today, and I think that’s because just by being who she is, she’s changed the way we think about women. I’d never thought before about how powerful she has been in that regard (and how rough that has been on her). Back then, it was unthinkable that a powerful man would be attracted to a woman who didn’t meet conventional standards.
R I think she got the short end of the stick, in real life. Not because her ambition was thwarted but because of the judgment laid upon her.
M It also frustrated me that she was painted as blokey with constant references to her appearance. Which is actually how things happen in reality, still, but that’s so frustrating.
R I’ll say this about the way the novel portrays their love affair: you really did believe their romance. You did believe that he was attracted to her mind and body and that she deserved to have men attracted to her for both of those things. She was so appealing.
U Totally. And what I enjoyed most about the book was that it made me revisit how that unfolded in real life. I thought there were some nice descriptions of what it feels like to be in love.
M I did believe that Bill loved her for her beautiful mind but I didn’t believe that she could love him.
U I think if you look at a woman who hasn’t been appreciated for who she is, and someone desirable sees that part of you, that’s really powerful. A lot of the book was about the power of being really “seen” for what you are. Which in her public life, so few people have done. It’s easy to believe the same applies in her private life.
M Her father had a lot to answer for. He was so emotionally abusive. Maybe that explains why so many smart, successful women are duped by scamming men. I am always mystified by that.
R She does leave Bill after he explains away his cheating, saying that he just can’t help himself. Is there such a thing? Or is this just how cheating men justify their actions?
M The whole “can’t help himself” thing is just bullshit.
U No, it’s “can’t be bothered helping himself.”
R I felt quite a bit of pain when she caught him kissing another girl.
U Oh, that made me stick to my stomach. You could imagine the blow would have been almost physical.
R How about this line in the book from one of the characters: “It’s weird you almost married Bill Clinton, because he seems so unworthy of you.”
M I agreed with that line. The Bill in this book is totally unworthy of Hillary.
R Yet in real life, people largely think Bill could have done better. The general public judged her as dowdy and not living up to their expectations of a first lady.
U Don't you think that has changed now? It was originally that way but I think she is seen as a better person than he is. Except by the haters, of course. Mind you, she has also had to really polish her look over the years to be “acceptable.”
M I don’t think the public has had the opportunity to know Hillary because Bill’s sins have become hers, too. The fact that she stayed with him has been interpreted as condoning his behaviour. Which might not be true but she has definitely defended him publicly for the sake of his career.
“You know when true equality will be achieved? When a woman with these kinds of skeletons in her closet has the nerve to run for office.”
R I liked the way the book highlighted the problem with women trying to break through the glass ceiling. Like the line, “You know when true equality will be achieved? When a woman with these kinds of skeletons in her closet has the nerve to run for office.”
M The book was strong in highlighting inequalities, but unfortunately they are the realities that largely ring true today, and no one is doing anything to change that.
R Rodham also deals with this idea of destiny, that things happen for a reason. Thoughts?
U Yeah, I think that’s crap. I think we rationalise what happens as leading us to where we go – and that’s not a bad thing. But we are the sum of our choices
R How did we feel about the book?
M For me, the book addressed the claim that if Hillary had left Bill after his indiscretions (and impeachment) then she would be president today. I don’t know if that is true, but I do believe that the version of Hillary in the book would be more likely to become president
R What then was the moral of the story? Behind every great woman there is … no one?!
M Smart women who don’t compromise for love prosper?
U I don’t know that there was a moral of the story, it was more about choices and that Bill was a bad choice. The reason we even talk about her starts with Bill – if she hadn’t been married to him, I don’t think she would have gone on to do the things she did. Her presence in the public sphere expanded the public sphere for women. Because she was there, she was in your face – you didn’t have to like her but you couldn't ignore her and we really underestimate how important she has been culturally. Whatever else you think of her, she has incredible strength to have gone through what she did.
M I do admire her strength. I am just sad for her that she didn’t have the strength to leave Bill. Maybe she really does love him as much as the book tried to show, and maybe she is as insecure as the book tried to show.
R But do you think she needed to leave Bill in real life? I think so many people have arrangements that seem strange yet their marriages work. Are we really ones to judge?
M Yes, I think she did need to leave him. She was publicly humiliated with Monica Lewinsky.
R It seems to work for them. And look at the evidence: they’ve raised an incredibly stable and competent daughter and they really seem to have unwavering support for one another.
U I remember reading about the first presidential campaign, when there was already speculation about the relationship. It was a description of how at the end of the day they’d get on the bus and sort of collapse on each other. They were there for each other. I think they do have a strong connection of some kind and which of us hasn’t loved a flawed human being? That’s the thing about HRC, she’s had more public humiliations than almost anyone I can think of. Right in that first campaign there were rumours about Bill, and she had to say, with a smile on her face, “He’s a hard dog to keep on the porch.” The thing I admire about her is that she seems to shrug it off. Obviously there is private pain, but there’s a strength in saying, “You know what? What you think about my private life is your problem, not mine. I make my own decisions.” If nothing else, this book opens fascinating discussions about what women should a) expect and b) put up with, and how that has changed.
R I also liked this line: “There are two kinds of marriages. The ones where you’re privy to how messy they are, and the ones where you're not.”
Photo_ Josephine Sittenfeld