“We Are Such An Unlikely Match”
When Indigenous artist Destiny Deacon first met curator Natalie King more than 25 years ago, they were both at the beginning of their careers. Since then, Natalie has been awarded an OAM and worked as a curator for two Venice Biennales (representing Australia and New Zealand). Meanwhile, Destiny has built an international reputation and is one of the most acclaimed contemporary artists in the country.
Destiny It was December 1994 at ACCA [Gallery], then in South Yarra, at a drab affair where I knew nobody and nobody talked to me. Then, like a ray of sunshine, Natalie appeared. She introduced herself as the curator and was friendly.
Natalie It was one of my first exhibitions, called Bad Toys. I was looking for the sinister aspects of toys and dolls and included Destiny’s work. She was kind of apprehensive but wickedly funny and able to put dolls in situations where they would look orphaned or sad or lonely. They told stories about Indigenous dispossession and the Stolen Generation, but in a humorous way.
D I told her from the start: if you can work with me, you can work with any artist. I’m someone you learn a lot from! She gets on my back to get things done in time, which I appreciate in the long run. She’s more ambitious than I am, doing what she loves – whereas I am still trying to find something I love doing. I know I make her laugh more than she makes me laugh. Natalie has a no-nonsense approach when it comes to work, but I can’t help trying to score some laughs.
N My children have appeared in some of Destiny’s work; she photographed my son Woody when he was a baby for Shaken up [2007]. I’ve got a photo where you can see my hand rescuing him as he was about to fall off her bed, with a hood on his little head! Destiny is very entertaining and good fun, and slightly on edge. We’ve talked about how we are such an unlikely match because I’m from a Jewish migrant background and Destiny is the daughter of an Aboriginal activist who grew up among a large household of siblings. What binds us is a history of genocide, a sense of humour and a commitment to family and community.
D I’ll always remember when we were in Wellington, New Zealand, for my Walk & Don’t Look Blak exhibition [at Adam Art Gallery, Victoria University]. I was singing Barbra Streisand songs and the song from the movie Exodus, over and over, and she never joined in or mentioned it. She either has a toughness that allows her to ignore it or maybe she thinks I’m a better singer than I am.
N Putting together that exhibition – which toured to Tokyo, New Caledonia, New Zealand, Sydney and Melbourne – took a lot of time. For two years, I worked to assemble her archives, because at the time all she really had was two slides in a dusty plastic shopping bag under her bed. She didn’t have an archive or exhibition history, so I took it on myself to assemble all that material, which I did with the help of her partner and collaborator Virginia Fraser*, with a view to getting to know her and her work.
D Natalie really is a good, kind girl. When [my friend, Indigenous poet] Lisa Bellear died unexpectedly in 2006, Natalie turned up out of the blue. While we were mourning – I called it Blak shiva in Brunswick, because Natalie’s Jewish – she came from the other side of the Yarra with a chicken dinner on a cold, lonely Sunday night.
N About a year ago, Destiny was awarded an honorary doctorate at La Trobe University and she gave a narration about her modest upbringing and the values that her mother instilled in her. It was very moving. She’s an amazing orator and she trained as an educator; she’s very widely read on everything from popular culture to feminist writings. When you visit her at home, her lounge room is like an artwork: there’s art everywhere … you walk into Destiny’s World. Her living room is full of Aboriginalia and her vast collection of black dolls and Koori kitsch. It is so laden with stuff that we recreated it for the MCA in Sydney and now the NGV have also transposed her home.
*Virginia Fraser recently passed away after a short illness.
Interview with Destiny Deacon and Natalie King by Rachelle Unreich
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